Comments on: Lisbon Treaty: The Campaigns http://bakkerbugle.com/blog/2008/06/13/lisbon-treaty-the-campaigns/ Say it three times fast. In Luxembourgish. Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:59:40 -0400 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Dave http://bakkerbugle.com/blog/2008/06/13/lisbon-treaty-the-campaigns/#comment-6595 Dave Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:30:22 +0000 http://bakkerbugle.com/blog/2008/06/13/lisbon-treaty-the-campaigns/#comment-6595 That's a good point. I think that part of the problem for the EU Constitution/Lisbon Treaty is the stage of life that most of the countries in Europe are in. For the US, When we won the revolutionary war, all we knew was that we didn't want Parliment and King George III telling us what to do. So we tried the Articles of Confederation, that didn't work, threw it out, and implemented the Constitution. The 13 colonies were like kids getting out of college and getting married. You don't know what life is like, so you get hitched and make a go of it. Neither side has ever been on their own, so you develop your habits together over time. When older people get married, like the European countries in the EU, it's more difficult. Each side is set in their ways, and has their own spending habits, furniture, china, and bedtime. It's hard to figure out which couch to keep and which dinner set you like better. Older people have an emotional attachment to these things that young people don't have. It's not impossible to make it work, things are just harder to iron out, especially the loss of control over decision making. And really, didn't the Irish people just vote on the Lisbon Treaty that was the little pamplet? How many actually read the document? That’s a good point. I think that part of the problem for the EU Constitution/Lisbon Treaty is the stage of life that most of the countries in Europe are in. For the US, When we won the revolutionary war, all we knew was that we didn’t want Parliment and King George III telling us what to do. So we tried the Articles of Confederation, that didn’t work, threw it out, and implemented the Constitution. The 13 colonies were like kids getting out of college and getting married. You don’t know what life is like, so you get hitched and make a go of it. Neither side has ever been on their own, so you develop your habits together over time. When older people get married, like the European countries in the EU, it’s more difficult. Each side is set in their ways, and has their own spending habits, furniture, china, and bedtime. It’s hard to figure out which couch to keep and which dinner set you like better. Older people have an emotional attachment to these things that young people don’t have. It’s not impossible to make it work, things are just harder to iron out, especially the loss of control over decision making.

And really, didn’t the Irish people just vote on the Lisbon Treaty that was the little pamplet? How many actually read the document?

]]> By: Will http://bakkerbugle.com/blog/2008/06/13/lisbon-treaty-the-campaigns/#comment-6591 Will Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:07:40 +0000 http://bakkerbugle.com/blog/2008/06/13/lisbon-treaty-the-campaigns/#comment-6591 I agree with your fundamental point about the US Constitution, especially since many of the most legalistic provisions were the biggest mistakes. (Can you say "Three-Fifths Rule?") But it's nowhere near that easy, even in the US. Most theorists hold that the "real" constitution of the US is the 4-page text PLUS all the major rulings of the US Supreme Court. And that's a massive document. Think about the Interstate Commerce Clause -- it's meaningless without the S.Court cases that invested so much power through it. And, just one more point -- one of the largest factors in the "No" vote was the inability of anyone to predict, plausibly, how the EU would function under the Lisbon Treaty rules. The 4-page US Constitution fares very poorly on this score. Imagine if the Irish people voted on a Lisbon Treaty that consisted of just that little pamphlet that you read! I agree with your fundamental point about the US Constitution, especially since many of the most legalistic provisions were the biggest mistakes. (Can you say “Three-Fifths Rule?”)

But it’s nowhere near that easy, even in the US. Most theorists hold that the “real” constitution of the US is the 4-page text PLUS all the major rulings of the US Supreme Court. And that’s a massive document. Think about the Interstate Commerce Clause — it’s meaningless without the S.Court cases that invested so much power through it.

And, just one more point — one of the largest factors in the “No” vote was the inability of anyone to predict, plausibly, how the EU would function under the Lisbon Treaty rules. The 4-page US Constitution fares very poorly on this score. Imagine if the Irish people voted on a Lisbon Treaty that consisted of just that little pamphlet that you read!

]]> By: Dave http://bakkerbugle.com/blog/2008/06/13/lisbon-treaty-the-campaigns/#comment-6540 Dave Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:10:39 +0000 http://bakkerbugle.com/blog/2008/06/13/lisbon-treaty-the-campaigns/#comment-6540 Will- Thank you for this fine summary of the Lisbon Treaty and the process of the referendum in Ireland. I'm glad to know that it's not just me who has no idea how the Lisbon Treaty works and why it's a good idea. I think that's one of the great things about the US Constitution - 4 page of 7 articles. When you try to codify every possible situation and scenario, it gets way too complicated. Will- Thank you for this fine summary of the Lisbon Treaty and the process of the referendum in Ireland. I’m glad to know that it’s not just me who has no idea how the Lisbon Treaty works and why it’s a good idea. I think that’s one of the great things about the US Constitution – 4 page of 7 articles. When you try to codify every possible situation and scenario, it gets way too complicated.

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